Eckhart Tolle interview with Oprah Winfrey -- Even the Sun Will Die: An Interview with Eckhart Tolle (Power of Now Teaching)

2012 Eckhart Tolle Interview with Oprah Winfrey [Speaker 2] (0:03 - 0:24) Today, Eckhart Tolle, on Super Soul Sunday, it was one of the most exciting, eye- opening, and meaningful moments of my career. Right now, you all are online with me from every corner on our planet. They say we practically crashed the internet when more than a million people logged on to watch. [Speaker 4] (0:24 - 0:25) Hi Oprah, hi Eckhart. [Speaker 2] (0:26 - 0:32) Learn and study with one of the great spiritual thinkers of our time, Eckhart Tolle. [Speaker 1] (0:32 - 0:36) The world can't make you happy. Things cannot give you happiness. [Speaker 2] (0:37 - 0:47) It still thrills me to think about it. I just love that. I loved it so much, I wrote, wow. Now, Eckhart is back, and today, you're gonna see him in a whole new light. [Speaker 6] (0:48 - 0:51) That's the first time anybody has said that. [Speaker 2] (0:53 - 0:55) So get ready. [Speaker 6] (0:55 - 0:57) This was fun. Yes. [Speaker 2] (0:57 - 1:20) Because Super Soul Sunday with Eckhart Tolle starts now. I wanted a place for people to go every Sunday to wake up, thought-provoking. Oh, you couldn't have said that better. Eye-opening and inspiring. This is my favorite thing to talk about. This'll lift you right on up. It's food for your soul. Every single Sunday. [Speaker 5] (1:21 - 1:24) This is Super Soul Sunday. [Speaker 2] (1:25 - 2:51) The weekly webcast that Eckhart Tolle and I did together back in 2008, I describe as my first life class, teaching one of my favorite books of all time, A New Earth, chapter by chapter. Millions of people got to know Eckhart during those 10 weeks, but not everyone knows his remarkable spiritual journey. At 29, this German-born author had become a research scholar in comparative literature at the University of Cambridge in England. Despite his academic success, it wasn't enough to halt bouts of anxiety and depression so severe that at one time, he considered ending his life. In his darkest hour, Eckhart says, he experienced an awakening that transformed his life. We'll hear more about that later. And he chose to walk away from his promising career to explore his newly discovered inner peace. Eckhart's profound yet simple spiritual teachings are the basis for his best- selling books, The Power of Now and A New Earth. Too much time had passed since Eckhart and I sat down together, so I invited him back to Chicago to catch up, to reflect, and to have a Super Soul Sunday conversation. How fantastic is this? So much has changed since we did A New Earth webcast. It was just four years ago, 2008. [Speaker 7] (2:52 - 2:52) Yes. [Speaker 2] (2:52 - 4:03) That was considered for me and our industry groundbreaking when we were broadcasting live around the world in our first webcast. Remember that first night and people were Skyping in? We're like, oh, there's Brazil. Yes. That first webcast was one of the, really, I think it was a seminal day for me because it said that our ability to, for me, doing this kind of work, using your voice to let people come closer to the one that is their own, that that was transmittable in a way around the world, in a way that we had never done before, but not only transmittable, but could actually be both physically, emotionally, and spiritually received. Right now, we're on OWN, on the platform of the cable network. We're also streaming on Facebook. We're also on Oprah.com. We're also on Oprah Radio, all at the same time, simulcasting as we speak. What was cutting edge back then is now just normal. [Speaker 1] (4:04 - 4:04) Yes. [Speaker 2] (4:04 - 4:06) This is how we do it. [Speaker 1] (4:06 - 4:06) Yes. [Speaker 2] (4:06 - 4:13) This is how we do it. Do you think technology is accelerating our consciousness or the opposite? [Speaker 1] (4:13 - 4:54) I think both are happening at the moment. I can see the negative effects of technology that it has, can have, and has on many, especially young people who get addicted to their devices, the computer, and the smartphones, and so on. Right. Our mind can get totally filled up with useless facts, and so that can prevent us from actually being able to pay attention to what is here in the present moment. The most important ability a human being can have is to direct his or her full attention to the present moment. [Speaker 2] (4:55 - 5:29) Absolutely. Absolutely. So there are obviously wonderful things, the fact that we can communicate now, hello, world, with everybody throughout the world who is seeking this information. That's a good thing. And obviously, there are dangers, particularly for people raising children in this environment. One of the things that you did after the New Earth seminars, you wrote a book called Oneness With All Life, A Companion to a New Earth, which says many of the things that are in New Earth, but it's not like a summarized version of New Earth. [Speaker 1] (5:29 - 5:29) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (5:29 - 6:24) OK. Now, this is what I loved from Oneness With All Life. This is also right next to my bed, my signed copy from you. You say through the present moment, you have access to the power of life itself. The power of life itself, that which has traditionally been called God, which I thought is such a beautiful definition of God, the power of life itself. As soon as you turn away from it, God ceases to be a reality in your life. And all you're left with is the mental concept of God, the mental concept, which is what a lot of people talk about, the mental concept of God. Their belief in God. And what you go on to say is, which some people believe in and others deny. Even belief in God is only a poor substitute for the living reality of God manifesting every moment of your life. [Speaker 1] (6:25 - 6:25) Yes. [Speaker 2] (6:25 - 6:29) I think that is such a beautiful offering for Supertotal Sunday. Yes. [Speaker 1] (6:30 - 6:52) It's stepping from belief, which is fine, going to the deeper level, where belief becomes an actual realization or a knowing. And that can start with a simple thing, like, and anybody can verify that in their own experience. How? When you take your attention into the present moment, which implies, of course, a certain alertness arises. [Speaker 2] (6:53 - 6:53) Yes, yes. [Speaker 1] (6:53 - 7:19) Which is different from thinking. Thinking, compared to that, is almost like a kind of dreamlike state. You're up here, not present here. So a certain alertness arises. You become more conscious of what surrounds you. But also, strangely, it's hard to talk about it, but I will, of a sense of presence that is both within and without. [Speaker 5] (7:20 - 7:20) Yes. [Speaker 1] (7:20 - 7:25) A presence. We could call that a divine presence. [Speaker 2] (7:25 - 7:26) Yes. [Speaker 1] (7:27 - 7:28) There is something. [Speaker 2] (7:29 - 7:35) And that presence, what everybody needs to know, is the presence that you feel when you're able to silence your mind. [Speaker 1] (7:35 - 7:36) Silence your mind. [Speaker 2] (7:36 - 7:42) And be aware of the silence that's in your mind. You are that awareness. [Speaker 1] (7:43 - 7:43) Yes. [Speaker 2] (7:43 - 7:45) Disguised as a person. [Speaker 1] (7:45 - 8:12) Yes. And when you become conscious of the gap between two thoughts, for example, or even now, sometimes I even recommend to people that they hold their hands like this, and they create this, let's say, past is there, future is there. You let them go, and now you bring your attention to just the present. It can be a little reminder to help you hold that sense of presence. [Speaker 2] (8:12 - 8:18) And to recognize that the past is here, and the future is here, and that the only moment that matters is right now. [Speaker 1] (8:18 - 8:21) The only thing you ever have is now. [Speaker 2] (8:21 - 8:23) The only thing that matters is now. [Speaker 1] (8:23 - 8:23) Yes. [Speaker 2] (8:23 - 8:43) I mean, I learned so much from that experience with you, the 10 weeks. It was like, it was the original life class. It is from which all the other life classes have stemmed. And one of the most important things that I learned is that we all have the ability to awaken. Correct? [Speaker 1] (8:43 - 8:43) Yes. [Speaker 2] (8:44 - 8:49) Yes. And that if we don't awaken as a species, that the species will eventually. [Speaker 1] (8:50 - 9:11) Yes. I see it as the next step in our evolution as a species is to embrace that state of consciousness that we call awakening. And if we don't, then the problems that the unawakened mind has created on the planet will only increase and multiply. [Speaker 2] (9:12 - 9:56) Coming up, Eckhart and I get to the heart of what an aha moment really is. Only spirit can recognize spirit. That's what an aha moment is, isn't it? One of the things that you say is that stress is wanting something to be the way that it isn't. So how do you know the difference between something isn't the way that I want it to be and I need to accept it because you say what you resist persists? How do you know whether you're supposed to accept it or try to bring about change for whatever it is that you want to change? [Speaker 1] (9:57 - 10:25) First, you accept even if change is possible and you may need to focus some attention on the situation to realize what kind of steps you can take to change the situation. But in the meantime, the basis for effective action is to come into an inner alignment with the is-ness of this moment. This is how it is. Let's say I gave the example in The Power of Now, I'm stuck in the mud, just as an example. This is the situation right now. [Speaker 2] (10:25 - 10:30) I'm so pissed off, I'm stuck in the mud. Damn this mud! How did I get in this mud? [Speaker 1] (10:30 - 10:33) Or you become a victim in your own mind. [Speaker 2] (10:34 - 10:35) There's always mud. [Speaker 1] (10:35 - 10:41) Why is this happening to me, always to me and so on. Victim identity, complaining. [Speaker 2] (10:41 - 10:45) What is the mud in your life? So you're just saying, using that as a metaphor. [Speaker 1] (10:45 - 10:58) Yes, but just look at the situation without labeling it. This is where I am right now and you accept that this is how it is, the is-ness of life. [Speaker 2] (10:58 - 11:00) And now, I will begin to think about how to change it. [Speaker 1] (11:00 - 11:06) And then you become, actually, a greater intelligence arises because you become present with what is. [Speaker 2] (11:06 - 11:16) So if you're stuck in the mud and you're angry about being stuck in the mud and you're trying to resolve being stuck in the mud from that point of anger, you will always remain stuck in the mud. [Speaker 1] (11:16 - 11:16) Yes. [Speaker 2] (11:16 - 11:19) You've got to remove yourself from the mud. [Speaker 1] (11:19 - 11:19) That's right. [Speaker 2] (11:20 - 11:39) I got that. Okay. One of the things that you write in the very beginning of the book is that if you come across passages in this book that you feel are powerful, I want you to realize that what you're feeling is your own spiritual power. That is to say, who you are in your essence. Only spirit can recognize spirit. That's what an aha moment is, isn't it? Yes. [Speaker 1] (11:40 - 12:07) It's always a recognition. The real truths of life are never entirely new to you or to anybody because there is a level deep down within you where you already know all the things, all those spiritual truths that you read or hear and then recognize them. I say recognize because it's not new. Ultimately, it's not new information. You're very... [Speaker 2] (12:07 - 12:08) It's a resonation. [Speaker 1] (12:08 - 12:08) Yes. [Speaker 2] (12:08 - 12:15) It's a resonation. It's a resonating with what is somehow buried or suppressed. Yes. That's what an aha is. [Speaker 1] (12:15 - 12:16) That's right. [Speaker 2] (12:16 - 12:33) So when you do hear something like from what we're talking about this Sunday morning and you want to tweet-tweet it, the reason it resonates with you, the reason it is an aha because that is spirit recognizing spirit. Your consciousness recognizing the consciousness of whatever that message is. [Speaker 1] (12:33 - 12:35) Yes. That's great. And that's an awakening. [Speaker 2] (12:36 - 12:36) That's an awakening. [Speaker 1] (12:37 - 13:02) And also it awakens that faculty in you when there's a glimpse of recognition then that knowing in you awakens and then it grows. It comes to the surface more and the more it grows, the more open you are to hearing spiritual truths and then you begin to live it in your life. [Speaker 2] (13:02 - 13:33) Absolutely. I think if the most important, if there was only one message because I don't want to, you know, in the short time that we have this morning to go over everything. It's impossible that we learn from New Earth. But if the essence of it, that if you wanted people to understand what the reason why you sat down and wrote that book or that book wrote you, you said that book was burning inside you. The reason why you wanted to do it is because you want it to cause an awakening. Is that it? [Speaker 1] (13:34 - 13:34) Yes. [Speaker 2] (13:34 - 13:34) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (13:36 - 13:45) Or one could say that it was kind of coming through me. Yes. So I just became the kind of almost the channel for it. [Speaker 7] (13:45 - 13:45) Yes. [Speaker 1] (13:45 - 14:41) So there was something in me that needed to write that book and I feel the essence of the New Earth and of the power of now is the arising of the state of presence. And now for the first time it is possible on a more widespread level for humans to undergo that shift in consciousness where they are no longer totally dominated by the continuous compulsive thinking in their heads, the voice that never stops talking. They are no longer totally in the grip of that because that's the old conditioned consciousness. Something new arises, an inner spaciousness, a presence and that presence transcends who you are as a person. [Speaker 2] (14:42 - 14:46) That's right. And it's what you call in the books going beyond thought. [Speaker 1] (14:46 - 14:46) Yes. [Speaker 2] (14:47 - 15:28) All right. You say on page 13, see if you can catch, that is to say notice the voice in the head. Whenever you notice that voice you will also realize that you are not the voice but the one who is aware of it. It's what you say in Stillness Speaks. You are that awareness disguised as a person. Yes. Yes. Wow, that's big. I think, is that, would you say, is that, I know it's hard to measure your own words and your own work, but would you say that that is in terms of awakening and realization of your personal power, that that's really one of the most important things? [Speaker 1] (15:28 - 15:32) Yes, that is the most important thing. Feeling it for yourself, sensing it. [Speaker 2] (15:32 - 15:33) Yes, what one needs to know. [Speaker 1] (15:35 - 15:52) So, the moment you become aware that you have certain kinds of thoughts in your head, there's already that awareness arising. There's still many people in this world who are so identified with every thought that arises in their head, there's not the slightest space of awareness there. [Speaker 7] (15:52 - 15:52) That's right. [Speaker 1] (15:52 - 15:57) And they may not, they may not even be ready to hear what we are saying. It would be totally meaningless to them. [Speaker 2] (15:57 - 16:11) Yes, so you have to be ready to hear it. That's why you were saying, why I was saying earlier, quoting from the book, that if you hear something that connects to you it means you're already awakening enough to be able to hear it because it's only spirit that recognizes spirit. [Speaker 1] (16:11 - 16:11) Yes. [Speaker 2] (16:11 - 16:14) Truth recognizes truth. Yes. There you are. [Speaker 1] (16:14 - 16:37) Yes. It's the deepest sense of beingness. I sometimes ask people, can you be aware of your own presence? Not thinking, not the thoughts that you're having, not the emotions that you're having, but the very presence of your very being. You become aware of your own presence by sensing the entire energy field in your body that is alive. [Speaker 2] (16:37 - 16:37) Yes. [Speaker 1] (16:37 - 16:39) And that is the totality of your presence. [Speaker 2] (16:39 - 16:54) Because you know that no matter what's going on, all the trials and difficulties and challenges and whatever that all of us have from time to time in our life, if you live past five years old, that there is a space that you can go to. [Speaker 1] (16:54 - 16:55) Yes. [Speaker 2] (16:55 - 17:01) That really is the ultimate connection to all there is or God. [Speaker 1] (17:02 - 17:02) Yes. [Speaker 2] (17:02 - 17:03) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (17:03 - 17:13) Yes. That's where you and God merge. So then you recognize your oneness with the source of life. [Speaker 2] (17:13 - 17:13) Of source of life. [Speaker 1] (17:14 - 17:14) Yes. [Speaker 2] (17:14 - 17:29) What I find is, if you can go to that space, that's where your strength, that's where your true strength lies. Yes. That's where your true creativity, your power, your ability to be authentically yourself. [Speaker 1] (17:30 - 17:30) Yes. [Speaker 2] (17:30 - 17:37) Everything comes from that space. And you want to be able to bring that space to everything that you do. [Speaker 1] (17:38 - 17:38) Yes. [Speaker 2] (17:38 - 17:46) Yes. Yes. And bring that space forward to inhabit who you are. Yes. To be conscious of that. Yes. Yeah. I got that. Yeah. I got that. [Speaker 4] (17:47 - 17:58) Coming up, Eckhart answers your Facebook questions. Yeah. Good questions. Thanks, Laura. Many people will be thankful for that question. Yes. And later, what do you do for fun? [Speaker 2] (17:59 - 18:32) Eckhart's answer may surprise you. For those... When we told you Eckhart would be coming on Super Soul Sunday, we heard the collective digital cheer online. You told us you had questions for Eckhart, and he happily agreed to take a few. Laura, one of our Facebook followers, wanted to know how to calm the voice in her head. She writes, I feel like my mind is racing at enormous speed, and at night it's even worse. How can I stop the constant stream of consciousness in my mind? [Speaker 1] (18:32 - 18:33) Yeah. Good question. [Speaker 2] (18:33 - 18:33) Thanks, Laura. [Speaker 1] (18:34 - 18:44) Many people will be thankful for that question. Yes. So, first of all, the question implies that you know that your mind won't stop. [Speaker 7] (18:44 - 18:44) Yes. [Speaker 1] (18:44 - 18:52) If you are totally immersed, you're so identified with your mind, even the thought that your mind won't stop doesn't even occur to you because you become your mind. [Speaker 2] (18:52 - 18:54) Yeah. You don't know that it is your mind that won't stop. [Speaker 1] (18:55 - 18:55) Yes. [Speaker 2] (18:55 - 18:57) So, Laura, that's a big... You're ahead of the game. [Speaker 1] (18:58 - 18:58) Okay. [Speaker 2] (18:58 - 19:01) The fact that Laura knows that her mind won't stop is a good thing. [Speaker 1] (19:01 - 19:57) It's a good start. So, when you hear the thought, why can't I stop my mind? Don't believe it because you can stop your mind. How? You can choose to take your attention away from thinking. And the first thing you do as you lie there in bed, you ask yourself, can I feel the energy inside my hands? Yeah. In other words, can I feel that my hands are there without touching anything? Yes. Can I feel that there's an energy inside my hands? And after a little while, most people can. There's a slight tingling or liveness that you can feel when the energy goes in there. Right. And that's an enormous step that you've already taken because immediately, thinking will slow down because it no longer has your whole attention. Got it. And then, see, can you incorporate the whole body? Can you sense your legs and arms? [Speaker 2] (19:57 - 20:02) So, why does that work and not just Laura saying to herself, let me think about something else? [Speaker 1] (20:03 - 20:18) There's no anchor then for presence and the mind has such momentum that you won't be able to stop it. Got it. You need an anchor for presence. And the inner body, as I call it, is a wonderful anchor for the state of presence. [Speaker 2] (20:18 - 20:22) Laura, I hope you got that too. That's why you just can't say, okay, I'm going to think about something else. [Speaker 1] (20:22 - 20:49) Yes. And then the wonderful... You have to actively... Choose. Not about something else, just go into the body and then thinking slows down. You might even stop completely for a while. And the amazing thing is what before was an unpleasant, dreadful, sleepless night, within a few minutes can actually be transformed into a very pleasant experience of feeling the inherent aliveness in your whole body and you lie there. [Speaker 2] (20:49 - 20:53) Because... And then you recognize, oh, I have slowed down. [Speaker 1] (20:53 - 20:59) You have slowed down and the mind will do very little. When you're really in the body, there's not much thinking anymore. [Speaker 2] (21:00 - 21:09) So another Facebooker wanted to know, this is closely related to what Laura said, how does one clear one's mind of bad memories? Can you clear your mind of bad memories? [Speaker 1] (21:10 - 21:34) Well, not as such, but you can recognize that bad memories are thoughts that are arising in your mind. And when you recognize that these are thoughts arising in your mind, you don't need to identify with the thoughts any longer. So memories, for example, of something bad that happened to you, it's not happening here and now. [Speaker 2] (21:35 - 21:36) It's already happened. It's done. [Speaker 1] (21:37 - 22:03) So memories are thoughts that arise. They are not realities. Only when you believe that they are real then they have the power over you. But when you realize it's just another thought arising about the past, then you find a space, a spacious relationship with thought. So thought no longer has you in its grip. I call it sometimes... [Speaker 2] (22:03 - 22:08) I hope people really get that. That would be a gift for somebody who's tortured by the past. [Speaker 1] (22:08 - 22:39) Yes. Another aspect of that, of course, is guilt, which has to do with something one did to someone or something that they failed to do but should have done. And so guilt arises. But of course, who you were then, no human being can act beyond their level of consciousness. At that time, you acted like that. The awareness was not there to act differently. Now the awareness is there and the awareness is who you truly are. [Speaker 2] (22:39 - 22:58) Well, I think a lot of the reasons any time I've ever felt guilty is because I kind of knew better. I knew better and didn't do it. There's nothing worse, I think, than being upset with yourself. And you're upset with yourself not when you make a mistake, for me. I'm upset with myself when I make a mistake that I could have prevented. [Speaker 1] (22:59 - 23:01) Yes. But you didn't. [Speaker 2] (23:02 - 23:02) But I didn't. [Speaker 7] (23:06 - 23:07) But the ego... [Speaker 1] (23:08 - 24:03) But you didn't. So live with it. Guilt is a strong way for the ego to strengthen itself because when you feel guilty about something you identify again with certain thoughts in your mind, which is ego. And the thoughts say, I should have done better. I didn't do it. I, I, I. And every I thought that judges you, you identify with it. It becomes part of ego. The ego loves guilt. It loves not only blaming others. That strengthens it too. If that doesn't work, you can blame yourself. But, of course, every human being has done things in the past that they now regret. I've done things that I regret. They were silly and stupid. And so realizing the essence of who you are does not lie in the past or thoughts about the past. [Speaker 2] (24:03 - 24:06) What matters is what you are willing to do now. [Speaker 1] (24:06 - 24:13) And you are the presence. You are the presence. Not any, no thought is who you are. [Speaker 4] (24:14 - 24:18) Coming up, get ready to rethink your thoughts. [Speaker 2] (24:18 - 24:21) Tell that thought, be gone with you. You have no power here. [Speaker 4] (24:22 - 24:28) You don't have to believe every thought that comes into your head. You don't. Super Soul Sunday will be right back. [Speaker 2] (24:31 - 24:50) This is one of my favorite quotes from page 64. You do not become good by trying to be good, but by finding the goodness that is already within you and allowing that goodness to emerge. Again, we're talking about going to presence, the divine within you, and bringing that forth to whatever it is you do. [Speaker 1] (24:50 - 24:57) Yes. Because trying to be good is often to improve one's self-image. [Speaker 5] (24:57 - 24:58) That's ego-driven. [Speaker 1] (24:59 - 25:34) Ultimately, it's ego. Some people, for example, have been trying for centuries to love their neighbor as themselves. Most of them have been finding it very difficult. Because love your neighbor as yourself really means first of all, you need to be in touch with yourself, the self that you are beyond the form, the consciousness that you are. Then you can love your neighbor as yourself because you recognize your oneness with your neighbor. [Speaker 2] (25:35 - 25:45) What you're saying is, that's so beautiful. I get it. Lots of bing, bing, aha's here. Love your neighbor as yourself, as you're interpreting it, is not as yourself the personality. [Speaker 7] (25:46 - 25:46) No. [Speaker 2] (25:46 - 25:59) Not as yourself who's out there mowing the lawn. It doesn't mean if you go to the theater give your neighbor tickets to the theater or whatever. It means the deeper always. Inner self. Higher self. [Speaker 1] (26:00 - 26:42) Love, I call love the recognizing yourself in the other and yourself, your essential self is consciousness. Got it. I begin when I then meet people and interact with people I see them on two levels or feel them on two levels. On one level they are the form which is the body and their psychological makeup. On another level they are the consciousness that I also am because underlying the body and the mind is the consciousness out of which the body and the mind have come and that is still there. That pure essence. [Speaker 2] (26:42 - 26:44) You see that in every person that you encounter. [Speaker 1] (26:44 - 27:05) Yes. And that makes it much easier to interact with people and much more pleasant because sometimes the personality, the psychological makeup is not that wonderful. Yes. And then one is able to let that be because you can sense that beyond that there is an essence to that human being. [Speaker 2] (27:05 - 27:31) That's what I mean when I am going into interviews particularly that I think might be you know, challenging. I will consciously meditate on the thought of the presence in me speak to the presence in you. Because that's what I'm really looking for. Yes. That underlying thing. That we all have. That oneness that we all have. That's right. Which as you know, that's when you get the best conversation. [Speaker 1] (27:31 - 27:31) Yes. [Speaker 2] (27:32 - 27:36) What is your own personal spiritual practice? Do you have one? [Speaker 1] (27:37 - 27:50) I don't have a practice as such. Do you meditate? Not in a formal sense but sometimes I sit and just be without doing anything. [Speaker 2] (27:51 - 28:07) I want everybody to know that you can just do that. There was a wonderful line in the book I can't remember where you said it. That stillness is the voice of God or stillness is how God speaks to us. Does anybody know where that quote is? 140. [Speaker 1] (28:08 - 28:13) Stillness is the language God speaks. Everything else is a bad translation. [Speaker 2] (28:13 - 28:15) Oh, that's right. You wrote the book. Why not? [Speaker 1] (28:18 - 28:38) Say it again. Stillness is the language God speaks. Everything else is a bad translation. And of course the in stillness you get closest to the source of life which is God and which is essentially yourself. [Speaker 2] (28:38 - 29:07) Which is the one. I love calling God the one now. The one. I know you told my producers that it's wonderful to meditate. You have meditated. Sometimes you do meditate. But meditation isn't the end all be all because there are a lot of people who go in and meditate and there's 20 minutes of let me connect to presence then they get up from that 20 minutes and they are unconscious the rest of the 2340. [Speaker 1] (29:08 - 29:13) So their daily life is not interspersed with presence and space. [Speaker 2] (29:14 - 29:20) That's like people who go to church on Sunday and then leave church and come home and kick the dog. [Speaker 1] (29:21 - 30:18) That's why I often say meditation is of course wonderful. It's not for everybody. For many people it will be very helpful. But even more important than meditation and especially those people who don't meditate and don't want to meditate bring in little spaces of aware presence into everyday life. Choose a few things that you use as vehicles for bringing in presence. For example when you get into your car you close the door why not spend 30 seconds just for example being aware of your breathing which is another beautiful way of bringing that inner space that presence into your life. 30 seconds is not that much even the busiest person can do that. If they believe their minds which their mind might say I have no time for this now but you don't have to believe every thought that comes into your head. [Speaker 2] (30:18 - 30:23) It's just a thought. Tell that thought be gone with you. You have no power here. [Speaker 1] (30:24 - 30:26) You don't have to believe every thought that comes into your head. [Speaker 2] (30:27 - 30:28) You don't because it's just a thought. [Speaker 3] (30:29 - 30:30) That's right. [Speaker 1] (30:30 - 30:38) For many people no sense of spaciousness